Slow going, and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

Monday, December 21, 2009

In refference to geocaching it has been very slow around here for us lately.  I have been busy with other stuff..moving snow, working in the woodshop etc etc etc.  We are hoping to get out and find some our first winter caches.  Very inconvieneintly we will be recieving another very large snowfall later this week, which is sure to make our eventuall cache run even harder.  Oh well, it would not be any fun if they were all easy to find.  Maybe Santa will even bring us some snowshoes.  Keep posted, after the Christmas wave passes over I am sure we will make some finds.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

Team MuddyBottoms would like to wish everybody a safe, enjoyable Christmas Season.  We hope you have the time and the ability to share the season with the people you love, and enjoy every minute you have.  If you cannot be with your favorite people, plesase let them know in any way possible that you care.  

Enjoy the season, and the caching!!

May visions of FTF's and full ammo boxes dance through your heads!!

Mini Cache Run....W/ Spoilers!

Sunday, December 6, 2009

Today my Dad and I (oldyweds) decided to make a quick 15 cache run while the ladies prepared Christmas such things.  We decided to head to the Waukau area.  We managed to find all 15 caches we set out after.  We had some easy ones and some not so easy ones, but none proved to be hard enough for the powerhouse dynamic duo!

One of the caches was near the Eureka locks.  A great cache in a great area, we have spent countless hours just below the dam in search of the illusive walleye.  We have shared many successful days fishing, as well as many more unsuccessful days.  It was nice to see ice forming, as I love to ice-fish more than open water fishing.

One of the caches had a much harder difficulty rating of a four, but with the help of our F-150 ladder, it was not a problem.  We stood under it, looking at the tree we would have to climb,and then hit hit us...use the truck!! heheheehe, such cheaters we are.

We did not take any more pictures than that, but we had a blast on our few hour cache run.  One of the caches we did at the Waukau dam area took us across the creek and up a pretty steep incline, I wish we would have taken the camera, because the sun was bouncing off of the winding creek, a great picture it would have made!

Check out the scrolling picture slide show that I put up, if you have any interesting pictures of your caching adventures I will gladly post them.  I will also post your caching name on the picture if you wish.  muddybottoms@live.com is the e-mail addy if you are interested.

Tree Hunnerd

Sunday, November 15, 2009

Today we were successful in reaching our 300th find.  We left the house this morning at 6:30 with 38 finds needed to reach 300.  We found our milestone cache at 2:45 this afternoon.  What a day, we had a blast, and wish we could cache like this every day.    We did have some trouble on our final which was Seldom Entered / Often Seen.  We had to call our Geobuddy CodeJunkie who I knew had done this cache before us.  Although we found the cache container, it sounds like it is not in the condition it was supposed to be.  We contacted the owner just to let him know that things may be a little out of place. 

With deer hunting coming up, we both hunt, so it may be a while till we get any more finds, but that is just fine, there is little we love more than the gun-deer season.

Here is Ruth signing our 300th log.

Numbers Run and a Toga Party!!

Saturday, November 14, 2009

Another #'s Run

In my last post we talked about finding 30 caches in one day to get us to 200 finds and beyond.  Well, exactly one week later we went on another numbers run with my parents, the OldyWeds.  We found 28 caches on 11-8-09 and had an absolute blast around the Wautoma/Wild Rose/Neshkoro area.  Here are a few pictures of our day.

  Here is a fancy picture of Mr Oldyweds, and me, Mr. MuddyBottoms enjoying a great covered bridge cache.

Here are the OldyWeds walking back to the truck after taking a walk along the pines.  We really enjoyed this nice little walk.

This tree felt a little out of place amongst all of the towering pine trees.  This was another cache that we enjoyed, we took the wrong way to the cache, but it still was a great hike. We found the  Billy Goat Gruff, but the troll was not around to visit.

We had a great day enjoying the fall views in a great part of the state.

Toga Party!!

Today we were members of a "World Wide Flash Mob".  We attended a great event cache put on by fellow cachers JimandLinda.  A group of cachers assembled in a Fond Du Lac park, all of which were dressed in togas.  We all arrived at exactly 11:00 a.m. signed log, won prizes, ate a feast(grapes/dehydrated), took a group picture, and completely dispersed at exactly 11:15.  We did get a few strange looks by by passers, as would be expected.

After the quick mob takeover we quickly retreated to the Coliseum sports bar right down the street.  At that point we all enjoyed a great lunch of all you could eat pizza and wings, while watching the Badgers kill Michigan.  We had an absolute blast, thanks to the much appreciated work of JimandLinda!  Unfortunately we did not bring our camera, but there are plenty of great pictures on the cache page, which I linked to above.

Yet another #'s run is planned for tomorrow.  We are hoping to find 38 plus caches tomorrow to get us to #300.  Wish us luck, I will have pictures and details to post tomorrow evening.

insignificant numbers?

Saturday, November 7, 2009

Okay, we all know that it is not all about the numbers, right?? Yeah, Right! While the adventure and locations we arrive at tend to be the big draw for us to go there, the number of those little smileys we tally up can attest to the number of adventures we have had.

But what about numbers in general? lets look at the number 1.... one, not much. More than Zero but less than two. A single penny does not get you much, in fact, nearly every store has a penny tray that people drop these insignificant little pieces of copper (okay, copper plated zinc) in case someone need it to pay tax or the cashier wants to round off the transaction to make things easier when they count the tray. How about one second, seems even more insignificant as you can barely take a breath in second. A single heartbeat is about a second. A fleeting moment in time. Even in geocaching, a second is only about 6 feet. How about one minute? 60 of those single seconds. Not a lot of time but enough to get something done. When you are waiting for something, a minute can seem like a long, long time. When out hunting, an entire day of seeing nothing can change in a minute. I guess that is why I sit out there all day, waiting for that minute.
Now, on the other hand, looking at 1 minute, in coordinate terms, can, and did, make a lot of difference for me November 6, 2009 as I chased my 1500th cache! A nifty little multi that I have looked to do for a year now. It Wäre Me, I Shét Em! took me quickly to the first two waypoints where I collected the coordinates for the final. Off I go, As I am walking through the prarie grass I finally get close to GroundZero. Start looking around for something that might hide the final, not much around, just a few small bushes and a lot of marsh grass here. Knowing the owner has used the vast isolation in these marshes before, I figured that it was a plausible location. Looked around for a little longer and then opted to use my Phone-a-Friend to query if I was where I should be. NOT! Immediate response was, no, you should be at ABC. Then it sank in quickly. Bets are that I missed the Minutes on the second waypoint. Okay, so now I trek back .35 miles through the marsh/prairie grass back to the car. Quick stop back at WP2 to confirm that I did make the mistake, and off to the correct coords for the final.

So, yeah, there are times when a single something is insignificant but other times, it can mean the difference between success and failure. Moral of the story, Always check ALL the numbers.

30/30 With a Milestone!

Sunday, November 1, 2009

Today we planned a full day of caching.  We started the day off at 199 finds, and knew our first cache of the day was going to be our milestone, so we had to choose wisely.  We are choosing not to say which caches we did today, because we don't want to spoil any caching for anybody else, but as you all know, it would be pretty easy to figure out!  Check out some of the pictures of the more memorable caches of the day.  We were perfect today, we went 30 for 30 without a single DNF, and we did our first virtual cache.

Here we are with our 200th cache, if you notice the hole to the right of the picture, well, the cache was at the bottom of the 8' deep casement.   We had to use some smarts to raise this one up to our level.

This one was really interesting to us, and the first cache we had done on private property.  Being on private property, the worry of muggles is non-existent.  This allows for quite elaborate hide containers.  This one consisted of two large coffee cans hidden inside of the computer tower.  Very fun, very clever!

 

This hide was posted as very wet, and rather difficult.  We are not sure if we were supposed to, but we ran across this bridge laying in the weeds.  We had to pull it out of the weeds and actually place it across the creek, but it worked out perfectly.  After we were done, we placed the bridge back where we found it, and laughed our way back to the car.  We almost felt as though we cheated.  Very fun cache!

 

Here we are at an EartheCache, at this one we learned about the different types of granite, and how hard or soft rocks can be.  Great area!

 

Yet again, another very creative cache placement on private property.  This one was actually hidden in a car!  More laughing!

With a total of 30 caches, we could not talk about them all.  We did some very cool, very different WSQ cemetery caches.  We also did some easy park and grabs, and some nice 1.6 mile hikes on rails to trails land.  A great day filled with a great variety of caches, that to us, is what it is all about! 

Next weekend we are planning another very cache-rich weekend!  If I can do enough caches during the week after work, I am sure we could even hit # 300 next weekend!! I hope, I hope!!  Stay tuned!

Stuck at 199...not by choice

Monday, October 26, 2009

As of Saturday morning we had been in quite a slump lately when it came to cache finds(only one all month).  So Saturday we decided we would make a quick local run to knock out 7 caches to get us to exactly 200...a great milestone! 

 Well, we headed in the Berlin direction to check out some cool caches, with #200 set to be found in the White River Marsh.  The first 6 were all great caches, all was going good, no DNF's and no problems.  Now we were all set up to find #200!! 

We pulled into the parking area in the marsh, and immediately two more trucks pulled up.  Uh-oh! There were a total of four bow-hunters in those two trucks.  Being an avid deer hunter myself, I knew instantly that if they were hunting the area that the cache was in, there was no way I was going to walk right through their hunting grounds.  I decided to let the guys go their own ways, and luckily they all crossed the road. 

 Now that I did not have to worry about ruining anybodies hunt we headed out for the White River Marsh Cache.  We walked down the nice trail that had been recently cut, gps working great, there was no stopping us now!  Well to make a long story short....we found the supposed ground zero with no problem.  Unfortunately there was no cache to be found.  Our GPS seemed to be working just fine, and was not jumpy at all.    We had read on previous logs that the coordinates seemed to be off, and reception might be lacking.  So, we started to work our way outward in a huge circle, at points I was more than 300' from GZ.  We struck out on this one.  Our 200th find will have to wait until this weekend. 

Team MuddyBottoms is planning an all weekend cache excursion.  We are hoping to pass up #200 and possibly get to 250 this weekend as well.  Stay tuned to see how that goes!

High Tech vs. Low Tech

Thursday, October 15, 2009

Hand held electronic devises that can pinpoint your location anywhere on the globe with the aid of billion dollar government satellites?...sounds pretty high tech to me.  Well, that is very true, but, on the other hand, how high tech is too high tech?

Recently, I have been tossing around the idea of updating my geocaching tactics and the gadgets I use to find Tupperware hidden in the woods.  I have contemplated getting a fancy new gps.  I have contemplated installing GSAK on my computer to help load up my new gps.  I have contemplated getting mapping software for my gps...I have thought about it all.  The more I thought about all of this I realized that I was worrying more about the technology involved with high tech caching, than the sport itself.  The more I thought, the more I realized that my very first caching excursion brought me to a whole new place, a place I would have never visited before.  While doing the cache called Rush Lake View (under original name of Stobber) I never once thought about why my gps was not more accurate or how I could make caching easier or faster...all I thought about was, where next??  I loved the fact that I could hike around these cool places and look for the geocache at the same time.  I remember writing down the coordinates that morning and making sure I knew were to park, and making sure my geo-pack was all full of things I thought I might need( I did not need half of what was packed).

Still to this day I use sheets that I made myself on word to write down the cache details for each cache.  I also get out my trusty gazetter and draw an arrow on the page as to where each cache of the day is going to be, I number them in order so we can make the drive easier.    When the cache is found we write comments down on that same sheet of paper so we know what to write down later when we log our finds.

To me, this is still a huge part of the fun.  I relate it personally to hunting.  Doing the set up work is part of the experience.  When I deer hunt I like to do a little scouting and make sure my stands are in the right spot.  To me mapping out my day, and handwriting down cache details is part of the caching fun.   I am usually not in a huge hurry to get to the next cache, so why download 500 caches to my gps?  I am usually spending most of my time enjoying the area that caching has brought me to, and not worrying about how many I can find in a day.  I usually map out 3 or 4 real quality caches that I want to do in a day, and hit all of the others in-between along the way.  The great thing about that is...what looks like a boring cache on paper sometimes turns out to be a great cache.

Basically to sum it all up, the other day when I was trying to figure out GSAK, and trying to find the best place to get a map chip for my Lowrance gps, it dawned on me.  Why do I need all of these gadgets?  I usually only find a few caches each time I go out.  My gps works perfectly.  I just got so frustrated trying to make everything work, why go through this just to save a few minutes?  I like my old school tactics, I think I am going to stick with them!

I do realize that my opinions are definitely not shared by everybody, but that is the beauty of the whole situation...everybody caches the way they enjoy!  Someday I may even change my mind, I cannot say that I wont, but for right now its low tech, if there is such a thing in geocaching.

 Here is a picture of what I am talking about, the sheet that I used sitting on the gazetter map. These are from the trip that we took to the U.P.  You can see the small numbers circled on the map.  The battle plan, all layed out!!

Ceresco Prairie Conservancy....more hides.

Tuesday, October 13, 2009

I guess I figured that placing eleven new hides on Saturday was not enough....today I hid some more.  Today I completed a 6 stage multi-cache in the Ceresco Prairie Conservancy.  Well before I was introduced to geocaching I have enjoyed this great area.  I knew right after finding out about geocaching that I would have to do some hides in this area.  It has so many different terrain types, and awesome sights to see.  There is also an abundance of wildlife to watch. 

Hiding this cache was really fun for me, because of the amount of traffic on the trail.  While I was doing the hides, the college mountain biking team was out using the trail to practice for nationals coming up soon in California.  So, every time they came by I had to either try to hide, or look totally innocent, which in turn made me look even more suspicious.  They had to have been wondering what I was up to. Not only were there the bikers, but also the normal amount of people just out for a walk.  It was very fun to try and make the hides without being noticed.  It sure would be bad if any of the hides were muggled before the cache was even made public.

The hide took me a few hours to complete, and I think it turned out pretty well.  I am not totally sure about some of my hides being muggle proof, while still staying winter friendly.  I will check them often and make sure they stick around. 

So to any fellow cachers reading this...you have a heads up that this cache should go live in the next day or two...I am hoping tonight.

Here is the map of the trail system...my hides encompass the part of the trail to the east of the "you are here" star.  Ups and downs...woods...prairie...ponds....rock ledges its all there. 

Let me know what you think of the cache!!

Mascoutin Valley Trail....New Hides Complete!!

Monday, October 12, 2009

This last Saturday I hooked up with a fellow geocacher from Berlin to do a cool series of caches.  His name is CodeJunkie, and he is a great guy with great geo-instincts.  We successfully hid a total of eleven new caches along the section of the Mascoutin Valley Trail that runs between Ripon and Berlin.  Ten of the caches contain a clue that you need to pair up to get the coordinates for the final.  The five hides on the Berlin half of the trail are owned by "CodeJunkie", the other five + the final on the Ripon side are owned by me,"MuddyBottoms". These caches just went live this afternoon, and already they have all been found by two cachers by the names of "BakRdz" & "jstajlr".  These two gentleman unknowingly each completed half of the caches, and teamed up to get a CO-First To Find on the final...well done.  Not only did they find them fast, they did it in the rain, and a few of them in the dark!  That's what its all about!

I hope everyone enjoys this series, and takes in all that the great trail system has to offer.

My new hide spot was too "weedy"

Sunday, October 4, 2009

 Not your normal C.I.T.O. event


I was out this afternoon checking out an area where I am going to place another hide.  While I was walking through the woods I spotted a ziplock bag, which I picked up as usual.  Normally I just throw them in the pack to be thrown out later, but this one was a little heavier than the usual.  The contents of this bag were not at all normal.  This bag contained a glass pipe, a bic lighter and another smaller bag containing remnants of marijuana.

When I got back to the truck I immediately called the Police Dept.  When officer Henke arrived he jokingly asked if I was trying to do his job.  Officer Henke is in charge of the drug dog in Ripon, so this is his forte.  I told him no, only when I have to.  I showed him the bag and he said "uh-oh, somebody is upset that they lost this."  He thanked me and we were both on our separate ways. 

Speaking of new cache hides

I am working on 3 separate caches here in Ripon.  Keep your eyes out for 3 new Multi-Caches.  Each one will accent a different nature trail system in the Ripon area.  I expect to be done with these in the next one to two weeks.  My goal for these is not for difficult finds, or super tricky puzzles, I just want to show people the great places to check out other views of Ripon.

Back in Cookie Town

Monday, September 28, 2009

 Thanks to Fellow Cachers

We are back at home, what a weekend!  We had an absolute blast up in Michigan.  After finding all of the great caches up there, we realized why we love geocaching so much.  These are sights and areas we would have most likely never visited without the help of geocaching.  Without fellow geocachers placing these caches many many more people, even locals probably would not know about these places.  So, thank you to all of the cachers out there who do the work and put in the time to make this such a rewarding hobby. 

Iron Mine Tour

Today was a totally cache free day, which is fine, because we did the great iron mine tour this morning.  After that it rained the whole way home anyways.  Not that we don't like caching in the rain, but after the long weekend it was nice to just chill out on the way home.  The iron mine tour was only about 40 minutes long, but we learned so many things about the history of iron ore mining.  I could not believe the things these men and boys did so long ago.  If you are ever in the Iron Mountain area, do yourself a favor and visit the Iron Mountain Iron Mine, you will not be disappointed.  Here are a few pictures taken on the tour.

Riding the train over 1/4 mile into the hill.

Here is a diagram of the mine we toured.  On the diagram we were standing at the observation area.  Immediately next to us was a 1,300' deep lake that was formed after mining was done due to ground water filling the void that was formed by removing the ore.  The hole is so large it took 2 years to fill it back level with the water column.

This picture contains a rainbow trout...underground you say?? Yes, to monitor oxygen levels while mining, fish, parakeets and rats were used. If the animals became sluggish or died, the miners knew they had to head to the surface.  This underground stream had rainbow and brook trout in it, with access to the huge underground lake.  It may be hard to see, but you can see the glow of its eyes, it came out real quick when the tour guide tossed in some food.

Milestone not Reached

We ended up not getting our 200th find this weekend, which is totally fine for one main reason.  When we arrived in Iron Mountain and started looking for what caches we wanted to do, we realized we had to focus on quality rather than quantity.  We knew we could not come this far, and be so close to so many quality caches, and then do a quantity run!!  We figured we would be cheating ourselves by driving this far to find a bunch of 1-1 caches.  I am glad we made that decision.  Now that we are home, we will plan a day real soon to find seven more caches, and then the 200th milestone cache.  If you have any recommendations let us know.

2 More Days in Paradise

Sunday, September 27, 2009

After the day of caching we had yesterday I was too tired to make a post so late in the evening.  So I will post some pictures from yesterday and today.  Check out the pictures!  What a blast we have been having.

Saturdays Journeys

 This was a wonderful waterfall right by the cache called Back to the Beginning.  There used to be a hydro-electric dam on this river, but it was removed years ago, now you can barely see the remnants.  Great views.

We did a couple of caches at a very popular spot called Piers Gorge.  There were great hiking trails along this stretch of the Menominee River.  From one of the cache locations you could see rafters go over the rapids.  I was jealous, it looked like a blast.

That was only our favorite two of Saturdays 11 caches, they all were great, just to many to post about.

Sundays Journeys

Here we are(MuddyBottoms), and my parents(OldyWeds) at a cache located at Long Lake Falls.  This one was great for a few reasons.  First off it required some four wheel drive skills just to reach the cache, the hike was pretty easy, and finally the views and falls were spectacular.  We hung out for a while exploring the area.

This cache was called HorseRace Rapids.  Another great waterfall.  I cannot believe how many great waterfalls and rapids are up here.  I only posted pictures of a few, we did many many more and there are countless more that we never even saw.  Geocaching is so great, I love the areas it has brought us to, that otherwise we would have never even knew existed.

Today, Sunday, was a great day, we  found all 14 caches we set out to find. 

Tomorrow we plan on taking a tour of one of the old local iron mines, not sure how much caching we are going to do, but the tour should be really great. 

Yoopers for the weekend!!

Friday, September 25, 2009

This afternoon we arrived in Iron Mountain and we instantly fell in love with the area.  After we got all checked in and settled into our hotel rooms we headed out for a few easier caches right here in town.  We figured we would take it easy after the long day of travel and what not.  We have a nice caching day all laid out for tomorrow, which should prove to be a little more involved, and the scenery should be a step above.  One of the caches we did today took us to a great ski-jump.  It was called "What goes up....must come down".  Here are a few pictures of the ski jump.  Trust me, it is much steeper and more intimidating in person, but the view was breathtaking, almost as breathtaking as the thought of actually skiing down that thing!!

Here is the jump from the bottom.....there happened to be a group of teenagers shooting some sort of video as we were there.

A view looking out from a platform equal with the base of the jump....the longest jump at this hill happens to be 468 feet....wow!

Stay tuned each day for updates and pictures of our journeys.  Tommorrow we are checking out Piers Gorge and a few other really great waterfalls.

Friday can't come soon enough!

Monday, September 21, 2009

Well, our plans have changed back to our original plan for this weekend.  We will be heading up to the U.P. for a four day all cache weekend.  This decision was made by the hotel, as they would not let us cancel our rooms.  We were not too happy about that, but we were not too upset either(wink).  So, if we are going to pay for the rooms regardless, we might as well head up there.  We are getting very exited for this, and cannot wait to get up there.  We will be hitting our 200th cache milestone while up there, so we are trying to find the perfect cache for that find.  If you have cached in the Iron Mountain area, let us know if you have a cache you would recommend.

Glad to see new cachers joining the game!

Thursday, September 17, 2009

While there are always places to go to find caches, it is nice to see some new cachers in the central Wisconsin area joining in and not only finding those caches that have been waiting for more visitors but placing some real quality caches! It has been some time that my closest to home caches to find were 20-25 miles away, now several have popped up less than 10 miles away. In this area that is just a hop, skip and a jump away. So, I would like to thank Muddy Bottoms, BakRdz, Codejunkie, CamoQueen and Geolivestrong for joining in the finding and hiding game. I know there are others starting out that have some questions about the game so, please don't be shy. Ask away! Check out www.wi-geocaching.com (Wisconsin Geocaching Association) for some good advice, thought provoking questions, or just some good ol' fashioned banter.

In a slump

Wednesday, September 16, 2009

     We are definitely in a caching slump...we have not logged a find since the 5th.  Its amazing how busy you can get with work and other things.  We are hoping to mix in some caching with working in the shop this weekend.

Our saving grace is knowing that we have a four day, all caching weekend coming up in a week. 

     Not only are we patiently waiting until we can find a few, we also have a few caches that we want to place when we have the time.  We just recently placed the "Ripon Parks Tour", which it seems people have been enjoying.  Hiding to us, is just as much fun as finding.  We have a few more caches planned out for here in Ripon, so stay tuned for those. 

 

Not every day is for caching

Saturday, September 12, 2009

As I sit here looking out the window and a great Saturday morning, I wish I was able to go caching.  Today I have to work in the woodshop to get a few time sensitive projects done.  After that we are heading the Marshfield area for a birthday party.  Tomorrow it is back in the woodshop as well.
     Caching to us, is a highly addictive hobby, and at times it is hard to get other things done when you know there are caches out there just waiting to be found.  When we first started, we would be looking every minute we could.  Now that all of the local caches have been found, more planning and time is needed to get the caches that are farther from home.  Since we are headed up north tonight, I am sure we will find a few easier ones along the way.
     We are learning how to budget our time to make sure we still have time for the other things in life.  We were planning to head up the the U.P. in a few weeks to do a cache only trip, but we realized it just will not work financially.  So, we are still going to to take the time off, but just make day trips from home.  We are hoping to have a couple of 50 cache days, mixed in with some very high quality caches. Right now we are at 160 finds, and we will find our 200th cache during that vacation.  So, I am searching for a perfect cache to make #200!  Stay tuned!

A few recent arcticles about geocaching.

The Basics & Quotes from Cachers

We've Been Muggled!

Hello From Ripon WI

Friday, September 11, 2009

Hello everybody.  We are MuddyBottoms, a geocaching team from Ripon WI.  We love to both find and hide geocaches.  We wanted to start a blog for geocachers that wanted a place to share stories and socialize with fellow cachers.  This site was designed to have many contributors, not just one. If you are interested in contributing any content, just shoot us up in the chat box.  Geocaching is all about finding great caches, and enjoying the whole process, so don't be afraid to share.   We will also be adding links to geocaching news all around the area.   Each month we will post a poll that is relevant to caching, and the results will be posted at the end of the month.  Please use the chatbox for live discussions, no more e-mailing back and forth.  If you need to talk to someone, just invite them over to our blog and hop on the chat.  If you have any ideas for the blog, please feel free to pass it on, and we will add it for you.  Thanks for checking out the blog, tell your friends and fellow cachers to stop in.  Don't forget to become a follower of this blog!

Thanks again,
Team MuddyBottoms.